Comments on: Molten Salt Solar Plant

By: Hiro Chandwani

Hiro Chandwani — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 05:08:54 +0000

There should not be any worry regarding the use of water. Water can be generated during the operation without any cost if your plant is located near sea coast. In fact, you may have excess water generated at little cost.

By: larry hagedon

larry hagedon — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 21:53:02 +0000

As I started to say in post 13, you can obtain water from sewage and municipal solid wastes. All such installations as this work best as a part of a biotech complex of technologies.

Put in sewage treatment using algae. Put in pyrolytic reduction of city garbage. Capture the steam.

Save the water from each of these processes and re use it. Extract the heat as you go and use that to produce more energy. Lots of ways these technologies can be combined for the greater benefit.

By: Femi Ades

Femi Ades — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 10:24:36 +0000

What do you think about setting up a molten salt solar plant in Nigeria?

By: russ

russ — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 06:04:49 +0000

Water consumption with the configuration they are using.

Could be low water consumption but they have gone for cooling towers which use the maximum amount.

By: BC smitty

BC smitty — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:24:16 +0000

A molten salt solar plant is being proposed about three miles from my place. I am currently off the grid and like it that way. what are the downsides of these types of plants.

By: fireofenergy

fireofenergy — Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:03:51 +0000

Everybody has to figure out the best form of very large scale energy storage. Then the price of wind and solar can come down due to economies of scale and the ability to sell power during peak loads.

There is Pumped hydro, compressed air, superconducting, mass wheel, battery, super capacitor and heat (molten salt). Obviously, some are too pricey and or do not contain the high energy densities to store billions of MWH throughout the world. However, the least likely will probably be the one that has the potential of exponential development.

And ya! They should outlaw the development of any more coal plants unless with complete sequestration. That’s the only hope of humanity developing clean energy and storage needed to stop the rising level of CO2.

By: Robert

Robert — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:43:46 +0000

I still say that it makes more economic sense to place fewer mirrors more deeply spaced on a simple motorized track that always places the mirrors at almost 180 degrees to the collector and sun. This would additionally require far fewer motors that are required for stationary tracking and far less and complicates software.

By: russ

russ — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:52:57 +0000

I was wrong on the water – the use is substantial – as best I can find out they are using cooling towers and the system will use something between 500 and 750 gallons per mW.

The plants have to integrate a consumer for the low temperature heat source. This is typical in many processes where one cascades into another.

Air cooling uses less water but is a bit more expensive and raises the cost of power generated. In the Mohave desert I have seen figures that air coolers would result in a reduction of generation by 5% and an increase in power cost of 7 to 9%. In a cooler area the power cost penalty may be in the 2% range.

Air (dry) cooling systems cost 3 times what the cooling towers do but cooling towers should not be that expensive.

In coastal areas salt water cooling towers could be used.

In cooler areas the penalty for the air coolers is less.

By: larry hagedon

larry hagedon — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 00:54:53 +0000

Next step then could be to use sewage, garbage, animal manures and wet biomass like switch grass as a source of the steam.

The steam could be flashed from the feedstock by the salt heat, breaking up the bonds in the cellulosic material and partially drying it for further processing, perhaps in a pyrolytic chamber.

You could perhaps even have a net gain of clean, pure water this way.

By: Robert

Robert — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:33:21 +0000

How about placing about one-quarter of those mirrors on a simple motorized track that would physically track the mirrors at 180 degrees to the sun and collector? Far more wallop? More economical? Less power and software than stationary tracking?

By: Mark

Mark — Mon, 08 Jun 2009 14:43:34 +0000

Powerful floods happen in the Midwest each year, right? Why not run a pipeline to the Southwest & California? You say it will cost billions of dollars, but just total up the cost of the floods and the damage from wildfires each year and the cost water in drought stricken So-Cal. You would probably have the money for it plus water left over for running the Solar plant. I’m sure that someone will poke wholes in the this, but think of the jobs that would be created also. We (being the USA) have built pipelines all across the world, what’s one more and think of the benefits that we would get from it. Even if it leaked some you would disperse the water over a larger area.

By: russ

russ — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 18:53:48 +0000

Agreed Frogz – build them where the conditions are right such as ski slopes in the Rockies and solar power in Arizona.

I recently read about a National Guard unit in New Hampshire installing solar PV – not exactly the best of all locations. Build it or invest in one in the proper location and use the income to pay your power bill from the grid. That is a lot more green than pissing away money to look cool.

Another was a solar PV installation in Portland, OR – great sun for 6 months and none for the next 6 months.

By: Frogz

Frogz — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:38:29 +0000

The way the video sells this technology is a bit misleading. “Power the world…” and what not. Suppose you lived in Norway or Finland where it is dark six months of the year. Solar energy generators would be useless for most of the year. I think nations should work together and export renewable energy. I heard some time ago that there were plans to build solar power stations in north Africa to supply Europe. North Europe could export power generated by wave, wind and geothermal sources. Integrating renewable sources and exporting power seems to be the sensible way to go.

By: Andrew

Andrew — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 09:04:33 +0000

Molten salts are used in some batteries under development, and also in a number of nuclear power plants, right? And since the Water issue is of concern, perhaps the company could consider using some of the energy produced, through contracts and such, to power a desalinization operation. And to Jays energy, Would there be issues of increased salinity of regions with desalinization plants? How would this affect that local ecosystem?

By: Rosco

Rosco — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 03:50:26 +0000

Yeah, so what… The DOE did this in the 80s & 90s. It was called Solar 1 and Solar 2. You can still see solar 2 from the north side of the 40 FWY east of the 15 FWY. These guys didn’t invent anything, they just figured out a way to sell it… I hope it goes big.

By: Jaysenergy

Jaysenergy — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 05:56:26 +0000

As for the water issue, Nevada and California need to work together on that. California sits next to an unlimited supply of water (Pacific Ocean) that can be desalinated using recent solar technologies like Australia is using. The sooner Calif implements said technology, the sooner they won’t need Colorado River water anymore.
Please note: There are entire nations in the Middle East whose primary source of drinking/washing water is the ocean.

By: Leslie

Leslie — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:14:32 +0000

James, I expect that it would. Lets hope for the best.

By: russ

russ — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 18:03:10 +0000

A closed cycle system such as the CSP is uses very little water – much less than any other method of power generation expect PV units which have other problems.

By: James

James — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:39:29 +0000

Do you think that using curved mirrors that have focal points that focus on the tower will increase efficiency and will decrease the need for the amount of mirrors?

By: Phillip Greene

Phillip Greene — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:47:23 +0000

To say that water is a “standard greenie whining point” is like saying that nuclear waste is just a garbage problem. If you think the depletion of fossil fuels is a problem, try living without water. If you go to Las Vegas check out Lake Mead whose “normal” water level is 100 ft above where the water currently is. Also check out the huge project by which they are digging a hole for a new water intake.